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Let’s talk about.... binding jigs
http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=7130		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  drfuzz [ Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:21 am ]
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So, my wife and I are in the throes of reworking our work space after building the last guitar for our daughter. One thing I am determined to do is get a good jig setup for doing the binding/purfling slots. I know there are several methods that people seem to gravitate toward - the "Ribbeke" style vertical jig, the "Fleishman" arm mounted jig, the jig that indexes off the side with two rollers... what are the pros and cons of these methods?

Thanks for the help.
Author:  Pwoolson [ Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:45 am ]
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Kevin, I've built and used both. I feel more comfortable with the Fleishman style simply because I'd rather move the router than the guitar body. It's more work to build but I feel it does a better job. You really can't go wrong with either, it's just a preference of whether you want to move the guitar or the router.
Author:  Shawn [ Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:45 am ]
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Tom Ribbecke's Jig was the first really good approach to cutting a binding edge. John Hall of Blues Creek (an OLF sponsor) sells the ribbecke design as a turnkey setup which is nice.

Harry Fleishman and Tom have known each other for years so Harry freely references Tom as his design source for his adaptation. Jigs are all about adaptation so the best evolution of the Ribbecke/Fleishman design is Don Williams (semi-retired luthier and OLF'er) variation. The info on it can be found here under Jigs, Tools and Techniques. IF you are looking for Don's design built as a turnkey setup then contact Craig Holden of CTH Lutherie and Supplies (an OLF sponsor).

You did not mention it but as long as you are looking them all over you can also check out Matt's solution at Guitar Jigs (an OLF sponsor).

Once you have checked them all out know that which ever way that you go there are plenty of people that use that particular jig so feedback and advise is easy to find here. All are good approach's and if you dont want to build it yourself, you can always get it from the sponsors here that I mentioned.
Author:  Alain Desforges [ Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:48 am ]
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I free hand mine with the Stew-Mac and LMI bearing kit. Not bad, but not the best because of the dome in the top and back. My router, even with a very small base will not index perfectly off the top. You absolutely need a gramil or similar tool to excavate an even channel (width and depth) if you use this method.

My next jig will index off the sides for sure. This way, you have an nice even channel depth wise. On the Taylor site (Factory Friday's) you can check it out here:

Taylor binding

Hope this helps.
Author:  Pwoolson [ Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:58 am ]
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Hesh, your jig will work fine but I would invest (time and materials) in a "doughnut" so that the router will not ride up on the dome of the back/top. Basically it just allows the base to have about 1/4" to ride on.
Send me a PM if you need help making it. Chances are pretty good it could find it's way in my car on my way to Montreal.
Author:  FrankC [ Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:59 am ]
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I am with Hesh as I bought the same jig but for the dewalt laminate trimmer. I like it because it takes up no space at all in my little shop. FrankC38882.875162037
Author:  John How [ Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:30 pm ]
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I've been using the Ribbecke style for years with good success but if I needed to build one now I'd probably go with the Fleishman/Williams design.
Author:  Pete Harrington [ Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:39 pm ]
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Hi Kevin,

I made a jig similar to what Taylor uses; basically two rollers in contact sides and the laminate trimmer mounted horizontally. You then rotate the guitar around, riding on the rollers (the Factory Fridays video at the Taylor website will give you the basic idea).

I think this would work well with practice (obviously, since Taylor does such a good job). I had a heck of a time, though, keeping the sides in contact with rollers simultaneously. The more I used it, however, the better I got; unfortunately, I really messed up the first few cuts.

I think the jig Hesh and others made is the way to go if you don't have dedicated space. Also, it would seem to provide much more control over the cut.

Pete
Author:  MSpencer [ Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:04 pm ]
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Who builds a Fleisman/Williams design and offers it for a price?

I am still pretty prehistoric I guess, I free hand using a Dremmel with the StewMac base and binding attachment. Works fine, really slow and very stressful work constantly worrying about slipping, but there has to be an easier way for sure and I'm looking.

Mike
White Oak, Texas
Author:  MSpencer [ Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:09 pm ]
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Are there plans available? I have not checked the OLF site for plans lately and have not noticed them here, but I will check. What will you charge me to build one for me?

Mike
White Oak, Texas
Author:  MSpencer [ Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:10 pm ]
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I'll also check with the CNC dude here one of our sponsors, I just want that particular design if I can get it.

Mike
White Oak, Texas
Author:  MSpencer [ Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:12 pm ]
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Sorry for so many posts, I just hit the button to quick. PWoolson's comments about moving the router vs. the guitar is what leads me to this desire. I feel it would be easier. Although I have stated what I do for bindings and purflings and anything has to be easier and less stressful than my current approach

Mike
White Oak, Texas
Author:  Miketobey [ Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:20 pm ]
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I built the Williams/Fleischman jig in an afternoon,not counting the lucite router base and UHMW donut. Don's instructions are so good I got it right first time. Much better than my results in guitar building. Used a table saw and a drill press and a drill.
Author:  John How [ Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:27 pm ]
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I think there is someone selling plans for the Williams/Fleischman jig, you might PM Don Williams and ask him. Also I believe that Craig Holden of CT Holden Lutherie Supplies, a OLF Sponsor, sells one that is liscenced by the designers.John How38882.9784375
Author:  MSpencer [ Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:30 pm ]
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Thanks John, I just pulled up CTHolden's site, I will contact him and purchase one. It is worth the money to get the quality I could see in the photo's

Thanks

Mike
White Oak, Texas

Author:  Dread1916 [ Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:38 pm ]
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I'm nearing the point of the 'dreaded' binding operation of my 1st build and was wondering if anyone is using a full size router for binding / purfling???

It's not just about the jig, but, also router size...so is there enough of an advantage with a laminate trimmer that I should give my big'ol PorterCable a rest???

Also, what options do full size routers have for binding jigs???

Didn't want to rail road the forum thread...but...I thought this is an appropriate follow on...

Thanks again,
JP
Author:  Mark Tripp [ Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:04 pm ]
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Mike:

You won't regret it. I got one from Craig, and it is top notch! I use the StewMac bit and bearing set with a PC 310 laminate trimmer.

I really like the Fleishman style - like Paul said, I'm also more comfortable moving the router, not the instrument...

-Mark
Author:  MSpencer [ Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:08 pm ]
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Thanks Mark, that was one of my questions I had but posted so many times I thought I would give it a break. I have been eyeballing a new Laminate trimmer and was curious since I have no experience with this jig if those would work fine. I emailed Craig just a while back and will be getting things rolling tommorrow. I will get me some of those SM bearing sets as well.

Thanks for the input and suggestions, the Forum at work

Mike
White Oak, Texas
Author:  Arnt Rian [ Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:38 pm ]
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Here's the recent thread about my cheapo binding jig:

Arnt Rian's binding jig
Author:  Arnt Rian [ Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:40 pm ]
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Hesh, I'm not Paul, but I believe he's referring to the donut shaped part that is mounted to the bottom of the base, with the bit protruding from the hole in the middle. The donut is the contact area between the guitar top / bottom and the router. Because of its small size it will not lead to a change in the angle of the cut as the router moves along the guitar rim (where the angle between the sides and top / bottom vary according to the plate's dome and the guitars outline) as a larger router base will.

The donut on my trimmer base is a simple steel washer, but it accomplishes the same thing.
Author:  Mike Mahar [ Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:10 am ]
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I saw a photo of Don Williams' jig on the MIMF when he first made it. I drew up my version from memory and built it over a weekend. I worked great the first time I tried it. It was different from Don's in almost all the details but, from a distance, looks just like his. I recommend using his design for the head of the jig. It is more stable than mine. I haven't really had any problem with mine though.



Author:  Steve Kinnaird [ Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:27 am ]
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Like Paul, I feel more comfortable moving the router.
I built a jig like Arnt's (which is really impressive!), but the old saying about
fool-proof" was coined for guys like me. I found a way to screw up the operation of that jig. It is inherently top-heavy, and I was able once (or twice) to let the bearings slip away from the side...the router tipped in, and made a deeper cut than wanted.

I then made a jig like the one I hope to picture here.
It came from LINT and enjoyed several incarnations. Hope this makes sense:




The design is borrowed from those armed lamps that move about on the workbench, while holding the lamp in the same plane. This jig just holds a router.

Steve
Author:  Rod True [ Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:12 am ]
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Since I'm so cheap, I made one similar to Mark Kett at Guitar Jigs which is similar to a Larravee type and the one used at Tylor. Cost me all of $5 for the wood and $25 for the bit (I had the laminate trimmer)

Works great, just have to get use to this way of using it.

Here's a link to the topic when I showed it here.

Just another way of doing things.

Rod True38883.4268865741
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